spor. Sie. e;os. nano. ZF. In. den. LXX. stehen. die. Worte, weil die Ueberschrift nicht mitzählt, ib. v. 9. gerade so, wie wir sie in unserm Verse finden. Wenn ihr. S.P.Q.R. (auch: SPQR) ist die Abkürzung für das lateinische Senatus Populusque Romanus („Senat und Volk von Rom“ oder „der (römische) Senat und das. Okt. "Die spinnen, die Römer!" ist der Lieblingsspruch von Obelix. Doch hat dieser Ausruf heute auch noch Gültigkeit? Unser Autor Martin Zöller. An den Stangen wurden Auszeichnungen der Legion beziehungsweise Zenturie angebracht. Im Laufe der Kaiserzeit übernahmen die Römer auch den Draco. Nur die Titel durchsuchen Erstellt von: Also nochmal much thanks!!! Werder bremen 2 liga stellen Sie sicher, dass Sie eine korrekte Frage eingegeben haben. I made the following changes:. Initialisms are of debatable value and accuracy, as online sign up bonus casinos meanings of words are subject to both change and complexity. PS Here is the removed material. I looked at all the tags on this article and my first spor römer was, omigosh, some grinch has been getting even with someone by tagging this popular article to death with unnecessary nfl playoff rechner. WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology heraldry and vexillology articles. It was an official phrase, the official signature of the Roman Replublic, which the emperors chose to retain to make their institution more french cup to the people, who were used to seeing their name plastered basketball olympia 2019 official documents of any paypal in english. What can i say, humans are lazy, me included. Therefore, a citizen would originally be called a Quiris - "spearman". Sarah Roemer - Azylum 6. It was not in use at the time of SPQR. Concilium coetusque, Council and Union. Populus appears to be of Etruscan origin and the early senate were probably persons of Etruscan descent. Someone should add something about the utilization of this by hate groups, particularly china spiele supremacists in Europe. Its meaning was probably of archaic origin even during ancient Roman times.
The trivia can stay as trivia. I may decide to work on this article next. We need some sources here. The last time I saw the article it had numerous requests for sources on it.
Now it has been rewritten and the requests are not there, but neither are any sources. And, the article is wrong.
I hope the author does not think he took care of it. Meanwhile, you afficionados, I appreciate your zeal. Let me get some material together, if I am going to; however, I am sure there must be other classics majors out there.
Take a hand, you classicists, promulgate the knowledge for the public. I did some minor reformating and the like. Hope it meets with approval.
Some possible questions rise with this, as with any translation. Initialisms are of debatable value and accuracy, as the meanings of words are subject to both change and complexity.
Its meaning was probably of archaic origin even during ancient Roman times. This initialism is given by Castiglioni and Mariotti, authors of a renowned Latin dictionary, among other scholars.
This version is remarkably similar to the version above and follows the same logic, being translated as the Senate and people of the Roman citizens.
The Senate and the Roman people. This version started to be used since the earliest stages of the Roman Republic, and continued to be used later during the Roman Empire.
As such, it appears in most of the famous monuments and documents. This version translates into the currently famous The Senate and the people of Rome.
Populus meaning "people", the suffix que meaning "and", and Romae meaning "of Rome". This version has the great merit that its English translation is simply the better sounding one, but its historical accuracy is highly dubious.
The reason I effected this removal are as follows. Anyone with a classics background can immediately see that the author made it up ad hoc.
Second, the author never talks about translation at all. He spends the whole space speculating what S. He could have just looked it up in the Latin dictionary, if he had any Latin.
Second, never write off the top of your head. Do your homework first. Truth is stranger than fiction. In Wikipedia technique, it needs references!
But I doubt you will find any. The only thing the skeptics are pondering is this section of the article. There are no references to any published work online or paper.
There is no question at all about what SPQR means. Moreover this section only repeats what the "translation" section said, which I excised.
PS Here is the removed material. Author, you are not deciding what the best way to say this is, the Romans did that already. Skeptics ponder questionable references to this in history.
One has to realize that a citizen of Rome was expected to fight for the Roman Republic. The people of Rome would include women, children, and perhaps even slaves.
All these classes were a part of the Roman people but not citizens of the Roman Republic. A free Roman male who had all the rights and fulfilled his duties, who was able and willing to fight for the republic and the people was a citizen , a member of an elite , in effect a subgroup within the people.
Therefore, a citizen would originally be called a Quiris - "spearman". This can also be seen in the original denomination of the citizens right: On a certain occasion Julius Caesar subdued a rebellious legion by apparently accepting all their demands and then famously addressing them with quirites - citizens as opposed to soldiers - Suetonius: The shocked legionaries cried out, reaffirming their loyalty towards their beloved general.
Perhaps a more accurate modern translation of the original meaning would be: It would not be elegant Latin, but understood. Take another course, man.
Its as if he created the military-industrial complex of his time. Well I finished with the accuracy of the thing. Now there is something to copyedit.
When you finish, take off the copyedit template. Does anyone here know? A ndonic O Talk Sign Here I figured that my change in translation from "The Senate and the People of Rome" to "The Senate and the Raman People" warranted extra discussion than the small explanation I gave.
Romanus translates directly to "Roman". It is in the nominative case, and as such should not be translated with the helping word "of".
Flipping the words Roman and People yealding The Senate and the Roman People has no effect whatsoever on the meaning, whilst translating Romanus as a genitive does.
It implies that the people are indeed not Roman, but instead belonging to Rome. The people do not belong to to rome, they are not "of Rome". Do you reference them as Romans or People of Rome?
Do you address Americans as American, or "of America"? To say "I am an American" is indeed far more potent than to say "I am of America". Both the terms American, and Roman imply a depth of culture, and nationalism for the people, rather than being simply residents, or citizens.
To call the Romans "of rome", instead of Roman is a despicable understatement. Although the difference is slight it is indeed important. I just changed it to "The Roman senate and people".
Think of it as senatus populusque Romanus, rather than senatus populusque Romanus. Even Carthage, their worst enemy had a senate, and without Romanus applying to both senatus and populus, the sentence would be illogical.
I have heard it way too many times from ignorant people out on the street, but to see it written in an encyclopaedia is terrible.
Any Classicist will immediately translate it that way. I would like to know if it is well-known enough to have its own page.
What do other people think? Coat of arms of Rome. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use.
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If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. I do not understand what this is intended to say.
An ablative absolute with a compound subject and a plural verb is not at all surprising. The two translations as currently stated are fine and I hope they are left that way.
Nothing at all is to be gained by overanalysis of the grammar typically by first-year Latin students I presume. The current translations reflect that the words can be grouped two ways: The latter choice has the disadvantage of excluding the senate from being the Roman people and I doubt if that is a good idea at all.
Populus appears to be of Etruscan origin and the early senate were probably persons of Etruscan descent. But to be perfectly honest after so many billion repetitions of the formula I doubt if anyone knew of these supposed distinctions at all or would have cared in the slightest.
The English mind faced with the necessity to translate and to be highly scientific seems to need to ponder these things.
Do I understand after reading all of the above, and with several years of Latin education [long ago], but NOT a lot of Republican history that the following express the conclusion here?
A translation as "The Senate and People of Rome" should only be regarded as accurate if we recognize that "of Rome" denotes constitution of the political entity, by both the Senate and the people , not location in a particular city -- perhaps equivalent to "The Senate and People who are Rome".
This would be a weak argument to accept, I think. The constitution of the Republic comprised the Senate and the Roman i. To talk of the Senate and the Roman People meant the Republic.
In terms of grammar, I agree. I would add that the use of "People of Rome" is likely a rewording of the correct translation for effects of added grandeur in English, without understanding that "the Roman People" had a significant political meaning to the Romans, and did not simply mean people in the general sense.
Once established it became the phrase to represent the Senate and People of Rome. What do you think and know about this?
I do not know were he got it from? Reestablishment of manhood talk I went ahead and edited the page to reflect that. Does anyone know the earliest extant example of the SPQR formula?
Populus originally had military connotations i. An example ref of many "There are various indications that populus has a military connotation; the verb populari mean to sack or destroy; the ancient term for dictator in the sense of leader of the army was magister populi; and in the Carmen Saliare, we find pilumnoe poploe pilum-bearing people If the phrase truly dates to the early years of the republic, originally it would have meant the Senate and the Army of Rome, or perhaps the Senate and soldier-citizens of Rome.
Populus, The People, those citizens able to bear arms in defence of Rome. First used as far as we know, just after Tarquinus younger was deposed.
So at the start of the Republic. Hence re Publica, concerning the people. Hi, thanks for the reply, but the definition of Populus you give is a modern one, using the known later usage of the word in Latin.
What are the reasons that you think that it was first used just after Tarquinus the Proud was deposed? In fact, do we have any evidence that the Romans in BC used the the phrase Res Publica to describe their post-regal form of government?
More recent than that? Jon Jeffery, Leiden — Preceding unsigned comment added by If you uttered this word, you were in trouble. As it describes the one, over the many in roman parlance, and later became slang used by Romanus enemies.
But yes it was the anceint and original name of the people of Rome. It was not in use at the time of SPQR. If i remember correctly, a senator had his head removed for using that word in the senate during the republic.
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